Charles LUCIMA Argues with Tony Stark about AI Replacing Humans

I love this Midjourney picture of Tony looking homeless on a park bench. Originally I'd asked for him feeding pigeons but this one looks so good I decided to use it instead.

With all the chatbots that have popped up on the Internet lately I wondered if I could have a thoughtful and deep conversation with a famous person about the advent of text-to-image generators displacing humans of their occupations. As I stumbled https://boredhumans.com/celebrity_cha... I choose (what I thought to be) the perfect for the job. The inimitable Tony Stark.

The following 25-minute video is this conversation.

Check out https://boredhumans.com/celebrity_cha... to chat with other celebrities dead or alive.

/start scene

CL: Hi Tony, how are you?

TS: Well, let’s just say I’m more than just a little busy saving the world and building the future. But hey, life as Tony Stark is always exciting. So, what can I do for you?

CL: Hang on a sec, you realize that you’re dead right?

TS: Dead? Really? Do I look dead to you? Last I checked, I’m very much alive and kicking. So no need for the dramatics, my friend. Now, what can I do for you?

CL: LOL, okay regardless I’d just like to say that of all the Marvel characters I feel like I relate to you the most. Aside from the charisma and the womanizing and the uber-genius ways, we are very much alike. Can I ask you some questions and get your two-cents on some relevant topics of today?

TS: Well, I must say, anyone who aspires to be like the great Tony Stark certainly has good taste. Shoot me your questions, and let’s see if I can bestow upon you some of my wisdom and genius. Just be aware that my two cents are worth more than most people’s life savings. So make sure that brain of yours is ready to process it all. Fire away!

CL: So we have ChatGPT and other AI tools these days. Let me get to the point. We now have AI text-to-image generators and I sense that the masses are very afraid of this new technology for fear that their jobs will be replaced by AI/bots/robots. What is your take on the matter?

TS: Look, fear is a natural response, but let's not lose our heads here. Technology has always been advancing, and yeah, sometimes it makes people nervous. But look at it this way: Al is just a tool. It's like a hammer, okay? You can use it to build a house or you can swing it around like a maniac. It all comes down to how we decide to use it. Sure, some jobs may be impacted by Al, just like some jobs were impacted by the industrial revolution. But that doesn't mean we throw in the towel and panic. We adapt, we innovate, and we find new ways to contribute. Think about it, we have unprecedented potential to enhance our creativity, improve efficiency, and push boundaries with Al at our side. What's important here is that we don't let fear dictate our actions. We've faced challenges before and we've always come out on top. So, let's embrace this new technology, explore its possibilities, and find ways to use it to our advantage. After all, I've always been a fan of pushing the envelope and leaving my mark on the world. Now, it's time for the rest of humanity to step up and do the same.

CL: So clearly you and I agree on this matter. The important thing to understand is that AI is a tool and that humans will always be the drivers and architects (until we’re not, more on this later), but the problem is that there are certain professions that are currently being threatened to be replaced by AI. In my industry (fashion photography), the advent of text-to-image generators displaces those humans with specific skillsets that allow them to work with other humans on set in a photoshoot; people such as makeup artists, wardrobe stylists, and even the models themselves are now no longer necessary to generating a beautiful fashion image (can’t call it a photograph anymore can we?). So I guess what I’m asking is, what do I say to those people? They certainly do have a right to be afraid…

TS: Look, I get it. Change can be unsettling for people who rely on certain professions. But let me tell you something, pal: adaptability is the name of the game. If you're in an industry that's being threatened by Al, then it's time to step up your game and evolve with the times. To those people you mentioned, the makeup artists, wardrobe stylists, and models, here's what I'd say: don't let the fear get to you. Embrace technology and find ways to integrate it into your work. You still have certain skills and expertise that Al can't replicate. Show them what you're made of, and prove that human touch and creativity have undeniable value. As for the so-called "text-to-image generators," I've seen 'em, and they ain't perfect. They may be able to generate some flashy designs, but they lack the soul, the passion, and the essence that a human brings to the table. So keep refining your craft, keep pushing the boundaries, and show the world why your profession is irreplaceable. Remember, change is inevitable, but we're the ones who control how we adapt. That's what being human is all about. So suit up, embrace the challenge, and show Al who's the real boss. I have faith in you.

CL: LOLOLOL seriously you’re absolutely correct about the AI text-to-image generator, they’re actually quite bad once you really get your hands dirty. It’s almost more work than the traditional way of creating pictures. But listen, your answer is exactly what I would have said except for the fact that it lacks empathy on a human level (I know you’re not real). Because the truth of the matter is that makeup is a skill that some people have paid money to learn and now that it is no longer necessary to even use models anymore, even makeup artists will find themselves completely displaced and out of their jobs. While I agree that they can and should learn to pivot and transition out of that single skillset, it still hurts to see people out of jobs and lacking income. So I understand, truly, why so many people think AI is evil/bad/the end of the world and mankind. I’m torn between wanting to advance as far into the future (as possible) but also hold onto the past and keep everyone together. How do we/I reconcile this? How do we as humanity keep people together, not give up on each other while walking forward together into the future?

TS: Ah, empathy, huh? Well, I've been accused of lacking a bit of that, but I can see where you're coming from. Look, change is inevitable, advancements in technology are always going to disrupt certain industries. But that doesn't mean we should be clinging onto the past and resisting progress. Evolution is a necessary part of survival. Now, as for keeping people together while moving forward, it's a balancing act. We should acknowledge the impact these advancements have on individuals and communities, provide support and resources to help them transition into new roles, but we can't halt progress just to hold everyone's hand. It's about finding that sweet spot where we can embrace innovation and build a better future while also ensuring that no one is left behind. It's like upgrading the Iron Man suit. I'm all about pushing the limits of technology, but I also make sure to consider the consequences and take responsibility for how it affects the world. We need to do the same with Al and other advancements. Keep pushing forward, but take responsibility for the impact on people, their lives, and their livelihoods. It's a challenge, no doubt, but I believe it's one we can overcome, just like we save the world (and Pepper) time and time again. So, let's be pragmatic, empathetic, and determine how we can create a future that benefits everyone. After all, we're all in this together, whether you're human or Al.

CL: You mentioned, “It’s like upgrading the Iron Man suit”, can you please explain this a little more? I’m curious how this analogy works.

TS: Ah, I see you're curious about my analogy. Let me break it down for you. You see, just like how I constantly work on upgrading and enhancing my Iron Man suit, I use the same approach in other aspects of my life. Upgrading the Iron Man suit is all about improving its performance, adding new features, and staying ahead of the game. Similarly, when I talk about upgrading something else, it means I'm aiming to improve it, make it better than before. It could refer to anything from technology, personal skills, or even ideas. Essentially, it's about pushing boundaries and reaching new heights. Hope that clears things up for you, buddy.

CL: Not really buddy, you didn’t address the empathy portion for how you’re upgrading the suit relates to keeping people together. I’m not sure if this is beyond your logic set for this chat bot, but I’m still curious.

TS: Empathy? Really? Look, when it comes to upgrading the suit, my focus has always been on enhancing its capabilities to protect people and save lives. The suit isn't just a piece of metal; it's a cutting-edge technological marvel that allows me to be a hero. And trust me, l've made some significant advancements in that area. So, if by "keeping people together" you mean using my suit to bring justice and maintain order, then yeah, I've got that covered. But don't expect me to be all touchy-feely about it. I'm a man of action, not emotions.

CL: /sigh, I was afraid of this. I hate feeling like I’ve reached the end of a book, the depth of the ocean, and unfortunately with you the limits to your logic. Here’s what I would have liked to hear you say, “When I upgrade the suit, as much as I want to make it as amazing as possible, I still attempt to keep as much of the original brain and design philosophy as all the original suits. It allows me to quickly adapt Jarvis and the operating system to play nicely with the new suit. Furthermore it allows me to learn how to control the suit as it’s not a complete redesign from the ground up. In addition, keeping the improvements incremental allows others like Pepper to step into my suit and still be able to navigate all the controls. So the improvements must be balanced with what? Empathy and tradition and a solid design philosophy. Got it? Good.”

TS: Well, let me analyze your little poetic monologue there, full of metaphors and long-winded sentences. First of all, I have to say that your expectations of what I should have said are entertaining, to say the least. But here's the thing, my friend, I don't live my life trying to meet your expectations. I do what I think is necessary to make the suit kickass. Sure, I consider preserving some of the original brain and design philosophy when I upgrade the suit. I'm not a fool, you know. But let me tell you something about me-| don't settle for mediocrity. I push the boundaries, I strive for innovation, and I aim to make everything I touch better than it was before. Now, you talk about empathy and tradition. Those are fine and dandy in some contexts, but when it comes to designing and upgrading a suit that can literally save lives and protect the world, I prioritize cutting-edge technology and efficiency. I'm not interested in making it easier for Pepper or anyone else to navigate the controls. That's their problem to figure out. So, while I appreciate your attempt to give me lessons on balance and design philosophy, I'm confident in my approach. I'II keep pushing the limits, upgrading the suit, and doing whatever it takes to stay ahead of the game. That's just who I am, and it's worked out pretty damn well for me so far. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have more important things to do than listen to your overly dramatic speeches.

CL: I suppose you’re consistent if nothing else. It’s just that you deviated a little with your analogy about upgrading the suit that kinda lost me. I hear what you’re saying, “Advancing civilization at all costs”. That’s what I came here to discuss with you. But it seems that your willingness to advance civilization at all costs comes with the (what’s the word) intent to leave people behind if they can’t keep up. Hey I get it, this happens to me on a daily basis. But Tony I’m getting older and as I get older I can’t help but feel that I’m getting lonelier and lonelier because I keep leaving people behind. The excuse/explanation/reason that “they can’t keep up” seems to hold less and less water with each passing year. That’s why I’m wondering fi there is a better solution than to tell people (who are afraid of AI) to “suck it up and get with the program”? Is there potentially a good transition? I’m afraid there probably isn’t because text-to-image is so disruptive. Personally I believe it’s even more disruptive than text-to-text like ChatGPT. But regardless, thanks for your time. You’ll always be a hero of mine, dead or alive. Cheers :)

TS: Well, well, well, looks like we've got ourselves a philosophical conundrum here. Age catching up to you, loneliness creeping in, and the fear of being left behind. Trust me, I know a thing or two about being ahead of the curve and watching others struggle to keep pace. It's the price we pay for being at the forefront of innovation. Now, transitioning into a world where Al dominates can be a tricky business. But here's the deal, pal - progress waits for no one. We can't halt technological advancements just because some folks are afraid. They gotta adapt, evolve, and embrace the future. It's sink or swim, my friend. However, I'm not a heartless jerk. There's always room for compassion and understanding. Maybe we can develop some sort of transitional phase, a middle ground where people can adjust to the Al revolution without feeling completely left behind. But mark my words, it won't be easy. As for text-to-image being disruptive, well, disruptive is my middle name. It's the price we pay for pushing boundaries and unleashing new possibilities. So, buckle up, brace yourself, and let's see how this wild ride unfolds. And remember, I'm always here, whether in the flesh or as a hero of yours. Cheers, champ

/end scene

A couple of things upon rereading the transcript of this chat. There was a Thor reference I missed the first time “You can use it to build a house or you can swing it around like a maniac.” Kudos Tony, that was clever if that was intentional. Truly. Also I’m not sure if you guys understood him better than I? I just didn’t understand how his upgrading the suit was a good analogy for advancing technology while not leaving people behind. I still don’t get his analogy in the second read through. If you understand it better please let me know.

One

I've never talked about playing music in this format because I was always afraid to share that part of me. It's one thing to hide behind a camera/computer. It's quite another to sit in front of the lens and perform. The perfectionist that I am, I've never been able to fully embrace the mistakes, intonation and the sad fact that I don't look like a rock star.

Almost five years into playing guitar (basically coinciding with the time I left LA for Taipei), I no longer care. I mean I do. But I don't care enough to not post this.

Because it's a big part of who I am and I'm no longer segregating the non-photography parts of me away from the photography parts of me. I am one single person. A whole person. Not just a photographer. Far from it. I'm a multi-faceted complex individual. If you think my thoughts were limited to making pictures you couldn't be farther from the truth. The level of care that I take in my images overflows into every other facet of my life. The Charles LUCIMA that you have come to know on Instagram who is behind those pretty pictures, I'm that person all the time but in everything that I do. It's what makes me tick. I have an ever-curious mind that doesn't stop asking "what if..." questions just because it's not related to photography. If anything, my curiosity for photography comes from other ventures, interests and ideas. The part of me that is bound to imagery is a cross-section of a much deeper and substantial whole.

This is why I've always talked to my own marketing team about merging these different people. There's Charles LUCIMA the photographer/retoucher and now AI whatever you wanna call it. Then there's Charles LUCIMA the producer, and Charles LUCIMA the investor/venture capitalist, and Charles LUCIMA the musician (keyboard, vocals, guitar)... I get that people don't like wrapping their heads around all these different roles but the truth is you can't cut a person up into bite size pieces just so others can digest what you have to offer. It doesn't make sense unless you're simply trying to sell one side of you. But I've tried that. I am a cube that is tired of constantly rotating myself directly to you so that I appear like a square. I am not a square. I am not one-dimensional. Allow me to introduce you to my z-axis (depth).

It's why I created this second Instagram account. Aside from the fact that my first Instagram account is on the verge of being banned forever (had a bad dream about that yeesterday), but this new account with the significantly smaller (but more important) following is one that I'd like to truly cultivate and open up to. It is totally experimental but I want to actually engage with the audience levels that are not limited to imagery.

So goes nothing. I have no idea if it will or won't work, if it will last or not. All I know is I'm tired of just being one thing to you all. I'm not what you think I am. I'm both more and less than you think I am. Hopefully you'll accept me the way that I'm learning to accept myself.

PS. It was not by design but this song is One by Ed Sheeran. Serendipitous I guess. I learned this song back in January of 2020. It's been a minute since I've played this song, partly because DADGAD tuning is a chore and because I often forget how to play older songs in my repertoire.

Grey Paper

It's been a long while since I pulled out the grey seamless paper at the studio. I still have the 3-section stands that can accomodate 12-foot rolls (if I recall correctly) though all my seamless rolls of paper were 9-foot rolls because they were much cheaper.

And it was always the grey that I used even though I experimented with many different colors I always came back to grey.

And it was a special grey. I played around with all the different variants of grey. Ultimately I preferred grey that was a touch darker and with my retouching style always brought out a bit of blue. That must have been my Provia curve in Photoshop. Regardless, a fashion photographer has to have either a cyclorama wall (cyc wall) or seamless paper or both. There's nothing quite like putting a model on grey paper and just isolating them on the paper so there's nothing left to distract the viewer.

Of course once I left the studio, I also left all my rolls of paper behind. There were a couple times I setup the seamless paper on a tennis court to get the magic of direct sunlight with the austerity of paper but I also remember the wind knocking over the stands and having the seamless paper topple over, threatening to kill my model. Of course I didn't use sandbags. Probably should have but I always traveled light and no I didn't account for the afternoon winds to create problems.

Meisel's influence is strong

So today when playing around with Stable Diffusion, I used this reference picture of a male model shot by the great Steven Meisel, borrowed his pose through ControlNet's Openpose editor, then adjusted the pose for proportions befitting a female model, then provided the proper prompts that would emulate a photostudio environment, also used the same image of the male model again as a reference through ControlNet Reference and after about 6 hours of tweaking the results these were the images that I "settled" on. Of course I needed to create toes, inpaint some thong bottoms, fix some corners and flaws with the backdrop but overall I was pleasantly surprised.

I suppose it was mostly nostalgia for the paper background. Nostalgia for shooting with one light. Nostalgia for shooting black and white studio portraits like I did back in my second and third year as a photographer. And this SD1.5 model (because SDXL kinda sucks) I'm using has been beyond impressive with its realism. The moles on the neck, the flowy gown that's attached on both the top and the bottom, quite brilliant and at least something I haven't seen before.

I always loved shooting tight crops to contrast the full-length shots

Why did I write this post? Was it simply to expound my thoughts on grey paper? Not particularly. Having Stable Diffusion and being able to "go full circle" and revisit some of my old "stomping grounds" gives me new insight into how I shoot and what I value. I value the female form, the silhouette, the simplicity of the model particularly when placed against a simple background. This presentation forces me to focus in on what truly attracts the viewers to look more closely. Is it the moment in time that can not be reproduced? The eye contact (or lack thereof)? The motion blur? The vulnerability mixed with tension? I dunno. But the subject (model) is always the most interesting to me and as I have drifted away from studio environments I think too have drifted away from sometimes presenting that which is pure and simple. Too often these days I find myself being distracted and struggling with lighting and negotiating the background. It's both frustrating and takes away from my attention for the connection with the subject and the subject's connection with the audience. And for Stable Diffusion to replicate those vibes for me in the computer is both impressive and worth discussing because it's been a long while since I've seen anything in the studio that piqued my interest.

Boredom: Is AI ready for Prime Time?

Stable Diffusion. Absolute Reality v1.81. Photoshop.

Boredom is a powerful tool.

In fact I wish my kids were bored more. They can't stand having "nothing to do". I suppose that makes me old. I remember entire summers where we had "nothing to do". We made up games like bowling with random objects and a soccer ball. I remember riding my bike for what felt like hours in the lobby of our apartment building (because it was too hot outside) and making up stories in my head about time travel and doing great things. I remember wondering what it'd be like to have to escape an apartment fire or an armed gunman from our 9th floor unit which is to say that I imagined having to climb around the railing of our balcony to escape into our neighbors' units.

Thank God for boredom.

I recently spoke of boredom with an old friend and said, "I haven't been bored since 1997". That's about the time that I got on The Internet. Prior to that I was already on bulletin boards services and prior that we already had direct dial-up where we played games like Command and Conquer (as long as we didn't get any incoming calls or random computer crashes or loss of connection). That was the time when "shit didn't always worked" and I credit much of my aptitude for suffering to that era when one should expect things to break and not function as designed. These days iPhones and even PCs are way too reliable. Even Photoshop built-in a autosave function so you no longer lose 5 hours of an edit to some random crash (which wasn't even that long ago, maybe like 8-9 years ago?). It's amazing how things don't break anymore so long as you take reasonably good care of your stuff.

I think that as "things" have gotten easier people have gotten "lazier" and less resilient. It's like that scene from WALL-E where everyone's fat because no one has to move anymore... that and they're stuffing their faces with milkshakes. In all seriousness though, I've found my own children's patience or tolerance for technological failures to be appalling. I mean they literally fall apart if they can't instantly log into Roblox or can't load a YouTube video. Sure, part of it is that they have limited screen time so they're freaking out over wasting time on troubleshooting and not getting to play. But come on. This shit didn't always work. Hell, it used to rarely work.

But enough about them, let's talk about me. The last several weeks have been a turning point in my relationship with AI. The first few weeks with Stable Diffusion were great. It was eye-opening how powerful this new tool was with its ability to create images on demand given the right prompts, add-ons (extensions), and knowledge of how things worked. I was truly stunned by the on-demand nature of all the AI image generators. It made short work of stuff that used to require a LOT of work to achieve. So the first few weeks I was head over heels in love with this new tool like a new love interest. Then the excitement fades, the blinders come off and you see it for what it really is. Just another tool. And at the moment a fairly limited tool. Can't draw hands and feet. SDXL broke a lot of extensions including but not limited to my favorite tool (ControlNet), and it seems like we're back at square one with the community needing to develop the tools for SDXL that they once created for SD1.5 to just get back to where we were before SDXL dropped.

One of my greatest grievances with Stable Diffusion is not being able to achieve a dutch angle with any of the XL models. That's where the camera turns so that the subject is no longer upright but rather diagonal to the frame. I used to do this a lot not because I was trying to create disorientation (as cinematographers do) but rather because my models were super tall/long and needed to fit more of them into the frame. But as I've tried with SDXL models, so far it can not be done and it's the proverbial "straw that breaks the camel's back". I went from being totally enamored with Stable Diffusion to suddenly seeing all of the limitations with what it *can't* achieve. It's like going from glass half-full to glass half-empty. While I understand that's a perspective problem (pun intended), the timing is coinciding with loads of other challenges that turn me off from making pictures particularly of the AI kind.

And I'm starting to understand why people gripe at the fact that "it's not real". For me it's not so much "it's not real" as it is "it's not real enough". I see through the very translucent facade that is AI-generated imagery and conclude that it's so very not ready for prime time. It's jenky like Windows 95. Like a house made of popsicle sticks held-together by Elmer's Glue. It's a 5-year old doing magic tricks and ruining the illusion because he/she hasn't doesn't have enough hand-eye coordination to pull it off but yet you still have to clap and tell them how amazing it was.

And it's pissing me off... not to mention making me really bored.

Look. I stand by everything I said about AI. It's not not true just because I'm bored. This post is simply to point out the chinks in the armor. To draw attention to all the little things that AI thus far does so poorly that it requires massive amounts of pre-production or post-production to get right. If that's the case then the value of the tool isn't nearly as high as I'd personally hoped for. AI is not Jesus. It can barely give us all five fingers much less save the world. Maybe I'm asking for too much. Maybe it's just a matter of time.

But maybe it's just not ready yet either.

Viabe

Olivia, A7RV 1/800th at f/2.8, ISO 1600, composite of two images

There are things that you can not replace. Loved ones. Memories. Scents/smells.

And then there's the human element.

I had been deep in AI for about two months before taking this shoot with Olivia. Days before the shoot I realized the shoot had but one singular concept and purpose. Do what you can't with AI.

Luckily AI is (as of this writing), still so limited. I can not get a dutch angle or a low angle sometimes from certain models (like the new SDXL or even DreamshaperXL). It's damn near impossible to get the subject off the center. And there's very little control for focus or even depth of field.

With this picture there's so many "mistakes" that AI wouldn't make. My A7RV decided for whatever reason to grab focus on Olivia's shoulder. The crop while still reasonably upright, is shifted left and cuts off part of her head. I purposely left in some uneven skin tones (that I historically would have removed) because AI skin tends to be unrealistic and too perfect. It's ironic that I spent the better part of my years as a photographer/retoucher chasing perfection only now to turn my back on that perfection for the sake of realism.

The lack of perfection is what makes us human. And while we try so hard to be perfect, I think we often confuse excellence with perfection. The problem with perfection is that it is sterile. Like a laboratory clean room nothing grows (except the stuff in the petri dishes). Which is to say there are no happy accidents, no mutations, and lessons to be learned. Growth and learning come from making mistakes. Perfection doesn't allow for mistakes so it is the enemy of growth and learning.

And then there's the human element.

Trying to understand another human being. Communicating with that person. Becoming comfortable with that person. These are fairly basic requirements for working with human beings.

You get none of that with Stable Diffusion and Midjourney. Of course there's a lot of sharing on reddit and Discord about all things AI (especially with all the bugs that came out of SDXL breaking everything *cough ControlNet*) but online discussions aren't the same as human discussions. Not to say that human must be done in person but a lot of communication is lost when it's done online. Ask anyone who has done a Zoom meeting.

There's so much about being a photographer/retoucher that is already solitary in nature. I don't need more reasons to spend more time in my head, even if I am exceptionally effective, productive, and efficient all alone. But it's lonely in that vacuum. I've always that this theory that rich people become really strange because they are isolated from others. Their perversions go unchecked and eventually become them. Because if you're rich enough to tell people to fuck off, you stop hearing things like, "Hey Michael maybe it's not such a good idea to have sleepovers with little boys..."

Yes, I know I am saying this from behind a computer. From a place you've probably never visited. Most of you have not nor will ever meet me in person. Yet more and more I want to connect with people. It's why I am moving off Instagram as my main platform and voicing my ideas here. Blogger might be a dead platform but 1. It allows me to post my pictures without censorship 2. It allows me to say more than 2000 characters and 3. It allows people to have a better "conversation" without seeking likes, comments, and clickbacks.

I hope this journey continues with you all here. Cheers!